The Leader Fast Lane - Episode 12 - with Carlos Morales

In this episode, I talk with Carlos Morales, CEO of Caprock Home Health Services. Carlos shares about:

4:26 - his leadership journey

8:21 - the importance of leaders continuously focusing on self-improvement

12:13 - new leaders don't need to know all the answers; instead, build a strong team

21:56 - his default instinct under pressure is collaboration

24:29 - the development of a values-based culture at Caprock, and its effect

31:26 - how to discern values fit for prospective new employees

36:24 - the importance for leaders to have a strong support network

42:51 - great teams have a clear vision & roles, practice extreme ownership, and engage in honest communication & healthy conflict

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hello, and welcome to the Leader Fancy Lady, the podcast where I talk with accomplice leaders from higher education, public service, and beyond to share real stories, practical principles, and hard-earned lessons listeners can apply immediately. No buzzwords, no shortcuts, just real leaders sharing real lessons you can apply right away. I'm Lane Mears, Assistant Vice Chancellor for Leader in Culture Development at the Texas Tech University System. Today I am joined by Carlos Morales, CEO of Caprock Home Health Services, the largest family-owned home health agency in Texas, with 11 locations across the state covering 152 counties. Carlos' guiding principle is to always pursue improvement, both in his personal life and business. He has been with the family company for the majority of his career. Carlos has an accounting degree and an MBA from Texas Tech University. During his time in the MBA program, he found a passion for studying organizational behavior and pursuing excellence in studying leadership. He is a member of the Board of Trustees for Star Care Specialty Health System, where he currently serves as chairman, a member of the board for the Larry Combest Community Health and Wellness Center, and a new board member of the Covenant Health Foundation. The majority of his leisure time is dedicated to his family. He's been married to his wife Cassie for 19 years, and they have three incredible little girls. It's great to have you on the podcast, Carlos.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yes, Lane. Thank you. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Good. Before we get into our discussion about leader and leadership, tell us a little bit about the work of Cap Rock Home Health.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, so Cap Rock Home Health, if anything, to get you excited, which gets me excited, my team excited, is to simply state the mission is just to empower our patients to heal, age, and live with dignity in the place they call home. And if anything, that's exactly what it is we do. We uh were founded here in Lulbock about 43 years ago. We're in our 43rd year, and we've expanded to 11 locations across Texas. Um, home health, I mean, it's in the names, exactly what we do uh from providing aging uh um services, right? To simple ADL, I ADL uh uh services, attended care, uh expanding into the clinical side, right, which is our nursing and our therapy focused services. So we have probably around 20 to 2300 employees, right? It kind of it varies day to day, uh, which is which is um uh crazy to think, but uh uh as much as we grow, as much as we expand, and as much as we need to employ, it's hard to really uh uh establish to keep track right of everybody that we do uh bring on, but we want to make sure that we bring them on with that focus to get excited about taking care of people. We're in the people business. Um, my passion has always been to take care of people. I almost kind of use the tagline. If it doesn't have anything to take to do with uh serving and taking care of people, I'm really not that interested. Um, and that's something that's just kind of been instilled with me from my parents from when they started this uh to now the transition myself into taking over and taking this uh company forward. So we have we provide fantastic services. We have incredible people that work in this industry, and we have a large view of continuing to expand and to show that across the state of Texas.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

That's great. Um, it's an important sector uh that that I'm sure you're dealing with people that are having to make difficult decisions and and emotional decisions, but it's great to know that there's someone like you and your team there who are compassionate, want to serve, want to care for um for people that uh on the other side of that transaction. I've been I've been so impressed with the members of your team that I've met, both here in Lubbock and also at the World Business Forum in New York um last year. And uh good on you. Good for great great way to do that.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Probably talk a little bit about my team today. They're incredible. Good.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Let's start with um, I'd like to ask you about your leadership journey. How did you end up in in leadership positions and and developing as a leader?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, well, um, you know, I'd say in college didn't really start off that way. Uh I I uh uh started uh with uh I guess a track in and looking at uh pre-med. So I did pre-med for about a year and a half. Um part of that being encouragement, you know, for my parents. Um thought it would be great. I thought I would love it, only to get a year and a half in and realize this is not what I want to do, right? That just is so many signs, so many things looked to listen to that I sadly transitioned to business. But I love math and I was extremely um excited by accounting. That sounds weird to many people, I know, but to me it really was. And the more I went down the accounting route, the more I understood that you could learn so much about any business just through the accounting structure, right? And through the financial numbers, it all kind of tells a story. Uh, but in the back of my mind, I always knew I wanted to be affiliated with the family company. Um, it's something that I just grew up around, um, something I got to uh observe and learn from, you know, from my parents, both working hard, trying to balance, building a family, but at the same time building something great. And uh really provided uh both of them providing leadership um experiences that I didn't necessarily acknowledge at the time. And going through getting my accounting degree, I thought, hey, maybe this would be great. Um, wasn't the most um uh outgoing person. I could be social, but I was kind of introverted a little bit of balance of both. Yeah, excuse me. So I thought, uh, well, hey, maybe this is the right route to go. And I went and uh I graduated, I did taxes, small books for about a year and a half, uh, only to quickly realize that's not what I wanted to do either, right? That's not the focus I wanted uh to have. And for an opportunity for my parents to open up uh a position, a staff counter position here at the company. And I also think that was the beginning, right, of the road, moving, uh, moving forward, moving up in the company. But I had very little experience and understanding of what leadership truly was. And uh from from coming and being a part of a larger organization, seeing how the teams worked, how the conversations happened, um, watching the examples, you know, from my parents and um specifically from my father leading the company, uh, I had I started to grow a huge interest in what leadership was. I started down the journey of, well, maybe if I just read all these books, all right, I'll become a great leader. And quickly found out there's so many leadership books out there, right? It's almost like they're a diamond dozen. And as I started reading and going through, you start to find and figure out what things actually impact you, what impact you as an individual, your mindset, or even your situation. And uh, I would say starting to read and understanding these books, applying them was a fantastic experience to lead me to realize that I have so much more to learn. I wasn't going to leave the company to go get experience anywhere else. So I decided to go back and get my MBA uh there at tech, where I fell in love with organizational behavior. Um, it just is uh something that it just took me down that pathway, improved myself and knowledge of what I know and what I experiencing what I needed to know, uh, but then also understanding I needed to get the experience of how to work with others, how to identify it, how to support, how to follow uh so many things. I know we've talked about, you've talked about servant leadership on this podcast, and I've certainly had in-depth conversations with Jason about this, um, probably more impactful than all the things I've read before, and talking with him and him giving me uh, you know, a little handbook uh by Robert Greenleaf. I know that he's he's well associated with that group. Um I've just continued to to grow and learn and become a what I would consider myself a lifetime student, right, of leadership.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Well, you mentioned that in your bio that one of your your guiding principle is personal improvement. Why, why do you think it's so important for a leader to uh have that as a as a continuing focus?

SPEAKER_01 8:34

I think you have to understand that you should never stop learning, right? I think when you feel like you've got it figured out, you've already failed, right? Either that or you put yourself in a corner and you become complacent. There's always room for improvement to where there's as an individual on the team or as an individual on a team, uh never lose sight of that there's always something to learn, right? It's become a driving focus for me, specifically in business, knowing that I've needed to continue to improve, right? Myself, myself as a team, myself uh a part of a team uh as a leader, and then how can I influence and support and develop others uh beneath me. But then that steadily is carried over into personal life, right? As I got married, as we started a family, uh it took on a whole new meaning. And it's it will never stop, never stop in business, never stop as a spouse, never stop as a father, and then certainly carrying over to wanting to uh be a quality community member uh as well, finding ways to do that, to to always uh get back, how to always do better. It's kind of a always want to find things and leave them better than I found them. Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Well, I I appreciate that. I'm I have a similar mindset, similar value in in continuous learning, uh, especially in this day and age where the world's changing at a rapid pace. And it's cliche to say that, but it really is the truth. We were talking before the uh we started the recording about AI and its um ubiquity and and increasing influence in in your business, in what we do, certainly in higher education. And so it it I I concur that it's vitally important for leaders to continue to be learners. And there's something humility aspect to that of recognizing that we don't know everything. We don't we may know our sector extremely well, like I'm sure you do, but there's always things, new angles, new ways to look at things that uh can improve how we do it. And what I love about talking to a senior leader that has this value is that it sets the norm for the entire organization that people are expected to learn, to continue to learn. And so uh I appreciate that. Have you seen that permeate the organization?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Oh, uh incredibly, right? So uh uh when talking about uh mentioning talking about my team, uh certainly built an incredible leadership team over the last several years, part of that taking on a uh uh reinvigoration, I guess you could say, of our culture, redevelopment for culture, re-establishing our core values, using those as guiding principles, um, and not just you know, words on the wall, right? They they dictate our actions, they dictate how we operate, make decisions. Um, as much as I'd say myself, right, and my team, we study this, we love leadership. We are we are pushing ourselves to continue to learn more and to challenge ourselves to get better. Uh, we want to deliver that to the rest of our team. And once, you know, you've talked about it kind of starts at the top. We have tremendous leaders and people that are just hungry to continue to learn that they also want to share. They also feel that this is going to impact others. And we've developed many uh opportunities for people to understand leadership at meet them where they're at, understand where they want to go. Uh, we have a strong belief that everybody in this company can be a leader at any level. And we want to provide the resources and the tools and the push and the drive, right, for them to want to learn more. And it's caught on very fast. It's it's exciting to watch it grow.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, I'm sure. In my work with uh Texas Tech System, I'm traveling with colleagues to Angelo State, to Midwestern State, occasionally to um the Health Science Center in El Paso and talking with people who either don't have the title of a leader, don't have people on their teams, or are newly stepping into leadership roles. What advice would you have for that profile of a person, a new leader or someone that is looking forward to being in that formal role in the near future?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

So something I think that I struggled with when I was coming up as a new leader, I would say immediately remove the thought that you must know everything to be a great leader. Uh I struggled with that quite often, understanding being leadership position. I needed to have all the answers. I needed to be the person to not only set the tone, but give the direction. And that and I thought that that meant that I had to be an expert in everything. And ideally, if you try to be an expert in everything, you'll be an expert in nothing, right? It's just it's a far-stretched thought. Um, so you need to create the ability to find answers, right? You need to build a strong team that can help you develop some of these answers, build a strong support system. Um, identify if anything, immediately identify your strengths. What are you good at? What are you not? You can focus on what you're not good at to bring up, but don't wait until you perfect those, right? Because it's it may be something that's just a frustration for you. Find others that fill in those gaps, right? Find the people that come that are going to be a part of your think take, a part of your leadership team, uh, a part of your progressive unit, whatever you want to call it. Uh, find the people that fill in those gaps that have those strengths, right? That that support uh the areas where you fail and or where you struggle with, and put your ego in a box and open that discussion up, right? Bring and surround a team that brings uh strengths where your weaknesses exist.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yep. That's great. On that point of in in your experience, a new leader feeling like you have to project that you know it all. That's a common common sentiment. And I I I relate to that when I first entered into some leadership roles, feeling like I needed to have the answers, be the person people could look to for answers. And um, it's a lonely place to be, really, is if if you feel like you have to project that persona. And the irony is, in my experience, and I'm sure this is the way uh for for you, I would suspect as well, is that when leaders are honest and open, that sure they know some things, but there's lots that they don't know and can draw on the team for those types of things, that does win respect and relationship with the people that you lead more than someone who puts them up as the all-knowing one.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, we've uh I kind of take on the root the the the ideology that I never want to be the smartest person in the room, right? If I am, I'm either in the wrong room, uh that place would be in trouble if I was the smartest person in the room, or I've surrounded myself with the wrong people, right? And so understanding what your vision is, what you're chasing, uh, and understanding the people that you need to help get you there is is is is a focus that needs to really be uh harnessed. So so we use uh if anything, so there's lots of tools out there. I just would share one thing that's really helped us when developing teams for projects, or even ideally, I could say for my C-suite team, my executive team, is we've used the working genius, right? Patrick Lencioni. So that's been a huge uh impact for us, eye-opening, and ideally it does identify your strengths and your your frustrations, right? Using that word, which I like that word a lot better than weaknesses.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Um it's it's it's helped us develop teams, it's helped us identify not only how others work, but also the the assets that they can bring to a project, to a conversation, right, to a decision that needs to be made. It's clear, uh, we utilize it. We have people put them up on their walls, right? To what their uh what their scores are, and we utilize and reference that to make sure when we put a team together, we're not missing uh any key piece, right? We're we're taking ego out of it and we're bringing strength in.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

I've got a list of different topics I'm gonna ask a question or two on um in the balance of our time together. This first topic is leadership and decision making. Uh, year-old friend and my new colleague Brandon and I were just in um Wichita Falls Monday, San Angelo Tuesday, talking with students, emerging student leaders on those campuses. And the topic was on uh decision making and problem solving. So this is a fresh topic in my mind. But the question is what's a decision that you delayed too long? And what was the cost?

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Man, so with that, honestly, we're living it right now. There's uh as we went really kind of through the transition, we were going through what you could kind of call succession planning, right? So me stepping into the CEO uh position, I knew that I needed to align my team well. We needed to take a we needed to take a snapshot, uh, which was a lot of conversation and inclusion of people that were going to be not only just in the positions with title, but it's the responsibilities, right? What is the workflow that you're responsible for? Uh and therefore, what is it, what are the teams that you're responsible for? What is the clarity that we understand the responsibilities for each position? And I believe that I delayed making some key changes too long, certainly when it comes to the oversight and leadership for our what we call our provider offices, right, in different locations. Could be different university systems, right? And for uh our universities under the tech system. Um, but we have what we call administrators, right, that lead our locations. And um I selfishly wanted to hold on to one or two of them because I thought it might be a little bit difficult for somebody to take over leadership of all of them at once. And I wanted to take the ones on that I either had projects going with or I thought might be too difficult. Let me handle this because I can do it better than you. Um, my my my fault was is we already identified who's going to sit in these positions, who has the skill sets to lead these teams. And I uh uh selfishly intervened, right? I got in the way of saying, you are, and I trust that you can do it, but maybe not with these ones yet, right? And that's completely a learning opportunity for sure. Um one that that created some some difficult conversations, right, with this individual as to understanding why. But those conversations didn't come until uh figured out that that was very broken and holding on to a key person and location that we almost felt inevitably they weren't getting on with on board with our culture, right? They weren't operating in the way that we needed them to, and I just felt it was too big of a project to pass on and it came back to bite us. And uh we're now rebuilding um this location, rebuilding new leadership usually comes with change and transition, but there was a lot of operational things that needed to be improved, a lot of things that could have been done and fixed sooner if I would have just been all in with the structure of our new team. And uh ideally, it wasn't that I had doubt, I just was I I guess I was being selfish with it, right? Uh ideally. Maybe it was a part of me wanting to hold on, not relinquish that power, not relinquish, you want to call it power, that responsibility. Because now I was getting to a whole new realm where I've uh you know disseminated a lot of responsibilities and things I was in charge of. But the reason we were doing this is because I was not doing them very well. There's no way I could do all of them. Um, so now, yeah, the costs are, you know, lots of hours to clean up organizational structures, uh, hiring new leadership, um, reinstilling the values, uh, going through the hiring process, and uh really the tough conversations that came at risk of me actually viewing um the trust in my team, at least that that individual team member. So that was a heck of a lesson. Uh still learning it now. I think we're on a good path. I understand where I need to get out of the way, where I need to trust. And like I said, this is part of me always being a student, right? Owning it, understanding it, talking it through, and then releasing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah. Well, I I can a hundred percent relate to that. Um, we hired two new training program managers here at um the Office of Leader and Cultural Development in January to relieve some of the um burden of travel to some of these sites for for some of the trainings. Uh and I've been traveling with both of them. But it is I I love working with these students, and it's been it's I've I've felt that tension of wanting to, you know, needing we hire these people to take on this role, and I want to empower them, but man, I really enjoyed that too. I don't want to, you know, it's been a tension to give it up, but um but like you've said, it's uh holding on to things can be counterproductive.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

It's what it was. It's it's just part of that transition. And maybe it was the worry of well, what am I gonna do now? Right. Um, a big part of it, and even working with Steve, right? A lot of he's still coaching me. It's getting back into the focus is what is it in my position that only I can do? Yeah, there's a lot of things I can do, but so can other people that you've put in these positions. This is part of the progress. So it was just letting go of it and truly understanding what my new position needed to be and where I needed to focus.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Well, that's great. That's a that's a growth moment. I imagine in your in your role and in your Sector, um there can be times of acute anxiety or pressure. What is your default leadership instinct when you're uh under that pressure?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

So through all uh studying and even as we just talked about this recent issue, uh it seems like my default instinct is where's my team, right? Collaboration. I need to identify what I can do and what I need to help with. I need to identify who can help with the situation to push it across the line and to uh solve this issue. Uh, I'm not worried about being the hero. Uh I have to get that out of my mind. I would like I said, I always felt like I had to know everything. I had to be the person to set the example. And part of setting the example is not doing it myself, right? Because I will continue to erode a team that I believe that I've built my instinct now is to let's pull our key people together, let's do it quickly, and let's assign responsibilities and figure out what we need to accomplish. I know my role is to identify the issue, the outcome, what it is we need to put in place, and provide the resources to get it done.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Yep. I admire that. I I I confess that my default instinct under pressure is to withdraw and to control what I can control and take the reins. But as a leader, you really do need to, like you've said, engage the team, collaborate, share that burden, not only to be more productive in in wrestling through the problem, but also really training others up and empowering others to step into roles that they need to fulfill.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

So yeah, absolutely. Empowerment was something uh I struggled with, right? So it was um uh hard to really, like I said, to release responsibilities or to direct uh people or to give uh assignments. Part of it was um just learning, uh getting comfortable, right, with learning to understand and be a leader and assigning projects because you have people waiting out there hungry to tell me what to do, or they want to tell you what they can do and for you to listen and support. It's it's uh the more I jump into and really utilize collaboration and my team, it's the the more exciting, you know. We're ready, right? We know what it takes to win, and we're ready to put that team together to accomplish it.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

That's great. All right, we're gonna shift the uh the topic to character and values. So CapRock has been a great partner of our office, the Office of Leader in Culture Development here at the Texas Tech System, uh, for quite some time. When the former vice chancellor, Steve Sosland, who you just mentioned, hired me, he held up CapRock as an example of a business that had developed a values-based culture. Tell me how that connection between CapRock and this office developed and why you've invested so much into the value culture, values culture there at CapRock.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, so it's it's been uh an exciting journey. And so, one I said I'd started really kind of with myself coming out off of my MBA, this new focus and education, understanding, desire to learn about organizational behavior, what it takes. I knew that we needed an improvement, right? Big part of it, understanding leadership for myself coming up, but then we also had uh new and younger people coming in, and we've have uh uh experienced, seasoned people that are staring down the barrel of retirement. And what are we gonna do to uh uh keep this team together, but also keep it going forward? What are we gonna do to paint that quality vision and how are we gonna get there? Um, I had so many ideas and so many things I wanted to do. And as we really started to build a team and we added more people, uh, quite frankly, we were hiring, as we're hiring better people, a lot of these better people started to speak up. They started to ask questions, right? Ideally, just to understand where they're going, asking the right questions, make sure they're a part of a company that they want to get behind, that they want to be a part of for a long time. And so the questions were uh fantastic, but it also showed me I needed to speed up this process. Uh however, I was drowning, right? Trying to focus on this, but then everything else, all the pieces that I had to manage. Uh so many people saw not so much of that it was broken, but that was misaligned, right, with responsibilities and structure. And so a lady on our team, Allison Orney, so she came on as a PT. She's right now our director of rehab. Um, she understood what I was chasing. She was one of the key people, and actually, she's been one of my accountability people, right, for for uh past several years. Uh, she's just fantastic, but she knew what I was chasing. And so she got a team together to look at present presenting the opportunity or the option of looking and creating a position called a chief culture officer. And uh new to us, I think fairly new even out there in the industry, but not necessarily new to her. So she started making some polls, some calls and doing some research, right, to structure and see what this was and tried to call people that held this title. And I think at the time Steve held this title, and not something very close to it, right? Close to the uh uh new to his time at tech. And so she said it was amazing. I just made a call and he picked her up right away, right? She didn't get a really hold of nobody else. He picked up right away. They had a fantastic conversation, really kind of created a connection. And it, if anything, from that single phone call, he wanted to be available, right? If anyway, a part of pushing forward with us. And so she used that, they created this presentation. I was immediately bought in and they organized this presentation uh around promoting a person, Brad Newton. So he was a PT at the time with us. So we took forward and I said, okay, you know what, this is exactly what I want. You guys understand what I'm chasing, and it's embarrassing to know that I can't do this by myself. That's how I felt at the time. Um, but uh uh so we promoted him. He was kind of doing it part-time and still part-time PT, for that to be short-lived to realize that he was fantastic at his job. And he knew what I wanted, he knew what we needed, and he knew how to bring people together and really create this. And so he took it forward, met with Steve, uh, created the opportunity for us to refresh, uh, restructure our core values. We started with that, uh, an initiative to do that, which in turn just created all kinds of cultural components, uh, improvement components. And it's really taken off. He's now our chief people officer, oversees all our people uh uh things, and our our partnership there has even grown to Steve. Doing group training sessions for our team, a few of us are coaching with him. Um, coaching was new to me, and I kind of had looked into it only to let it drop off because there were just so many options. I didn't really know what I wanted. But working through him, I realized he was it right it initially, if anything, to start with. Yeah, so it's been an incredible effort. Like I said, it's organized, it's structuring everything that we do here, and it really is a living, breathing culture that we have. And we it's it's not perfect yet. We're still improving it, but it'll never stop.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

That's great. I I didn't realize that was the that was the connection. The initial connection was just a phone call that's to Steve. Yeah, simple, simple phone call, and she was surprised he picked up.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

But now that we got to know him, we're not.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yeah, that's that's amazing. So if if you could just in in in a sentence or two, what's what's the difference pre this emphasis on values culture to to now? Obviously, you've said it's it's not perfect, but what's the difference?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Um, I would say the fact that we have given our people more of an opportunity, I guess you say more of a voice. I feel like it always existed there. In my mindset, it always existed there, and I'd say it. I want you to speak up, I want you to share anything and everything, right? Just from simplicity and but the words and the actions, they didn't really connect, right? So we didn't have this instilled across the rest of our leadership, and we didn't have a basis and we didn't have a qu a huge focus on what the expectations are, right? Not just core values, but behaviors related to that. And with the behaviors, what are the opportunities that we're creating? How much comfort are we creating with our team at any level to share ideas, to speak up, to uh engage and understand what healthy conflict actually is, and how can we make sure our leadership and everybody embraces uh those conversations, right? We put core values in front of everything that we do. Um, uh our mission, we reiterate these things, right? It's it's it's uh we put this on repetition, not just from discussion, but then actions, right? We're seeing more people step up and share ideas, we're seeing people come together, we're seeing people ask for and pushing us to make sure that we provide clarity, right? Clarity is huge. Uh, not only what it is we're chasing, but what the expectations are from the individual, what the expectations are from the location, uh, from the team. And we're asking what uh improvements that we need to make, right? We'll never stop asking that, but we've gotten more engagement from that uh as of late than we did five, six years ago. It's just it's been incredible to see the people that we're finding, right, coming and finding that courage to come forward and help be a part of uh creating something uh that's gonna be long-term success for the company.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

A question I've got is I I've talked with a few different teams here at Texas Tech University, but also at one of our other uh universities in the system, about hiring people that fit the values of the organization. How do you go about finding people, the right people, whose values resonate with the organizations?

SPEAKER_01 31:54

I would say with this has come a big shift in the way that we're hiring and the people that we're hiring. Um, before, and not that you discounted, but experience seemed to kind of rain in rain in the focus, right? Do they answer these questions? Do they have this experience? How many years have they been doing this? You know, blah, blah, blah, all those things. Okay, they're great. Little do you know they come in, and for they're better words than this, but emphatic word is they come in and they just become a cancer, right? Yeah, I know more than you. I've been doing this for so many years, I've been doing this for 20 plus years, you guys are doing it wrong. You need to do it my way. And those things they don't help, right? They actually tear a team apart, they start to tear, tear down and pull uh even uh at the uh support level, corporate level, a structure down and cause infighting. Like it just it it tends to get nasty. And so we will start to use these principles and we start to use the focus is now we want to hire the right fit, right? Experience matters, you have to have certain licenses and certain things for positions, but we're not scared of hiring somebody green, especially if they can fit, because we can teach all the things that we do, right? We can teach this, uh, but we need to have the right people. And so it's really changed our hiring processes. Um, it's been a bit of a shift. I think we're getting a lot better at it. Maybe took a little bit more time to find out and understand truly what we were doing, right? Completely change uh the interview process and um uh fitting in right to that location, not so much trying to find somebody that fits that management, but finding somebody that fits the culture and making sure we have the right leadership in in and across the company. So it's really changed the way that we do this and it's been successful. Um, it's actually been exciting, right, to hire great people and have people come on board ready to go and knowing that we can teach them anything they need to know, but they come in with the right attitude and the right character, uh, it makes it such an easier process.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

How do you identify whether an applicant carries the values that you're looking for?

SPEAKER_01 34:00

So I don't have I don't have all the questions in front of me, right? But I would say there's a much smarter team uh uh than I that have helped to create uh this process, but we've got more uh the questions have become more thought, obviously thought process questions, yeah. Um core competency related, or value related. Um they've gotten creative, right, based even on position, right? Based on the the level of position that's being or the discipline of position that's coming in. Uh come up with questions asking for stories, um, uh really just kind of starting to gauge responses. And our HR team has upped their game when it's come to being a part of this process, instead of just being that robotic, hey, okay, they check the boxes next, they're asking more of the questions, and then we'll have more inclusion with even other key team members, right? To get their input. Uh, certainly when they make it to the second round and third round. So I don't have the questions in front of me, but I will say, I will say I know the focus has been, excuse me, to to really have them to be more thought-provoking, kind of personality characteristic type uh questions rather than uh experience questions.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Sure. Well, that's that's good, that makes sense. Um and as you're talking, it made me it reminded me of what struck me when I first saw the posting for this job that I have now. It was on LinkedIn, just happened up happened upon it on a search, and I'm sure Steve had written the the job posting. But it was very much you couldn't escape the the emphasis on the top candidates will live out these values, and it was it was different than other job postings I was seeing. So even that first step I think is probably has some filter for people, how we post jobs, and then yeah, having having re- rethinking the questions that you ask candidates uh to get that get to those values more open-ended questions, more less about experience than about how they problem solve it. It's a great approach. Um and something I'll use when I talk with others who are asking asking our office how they hire for fit and values uh going forward. All right, you're gonna shift to uh failure, growth, and resilience, the topics. What do you do when your confidence takes a hit as a leader or the leader?

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Oh yeah. Um probably happens more times than I'd like to admit, right? A lot of times I'll I'll hit that real that monster of uh what uh imposter syndrome, right? I will hit that there's situations or there's sometimes things just become overwhelming and as strong and diligent as I think I am, I'm also human and I have my and I have my times. Uh so I gotta tell you, I have really utilized um through conversation and also asking me to do this, but I've started to utilize the most important person in my life, which is my wife. She's she wants to know more, and I've been open more about you know what it is we do for work. She actually works here right now. Um uh uh she it won't be forever, right? She wanted to pick up her her uh career. She stayed home for close to about 10 years as we're starting and raising a family, so she's ready to get back in. So it's kind of a stair step for her to get back into nursing. Um, but there's the more she's understanding. I brought her along the journey too, right? What we're looking at for leadership um uh improvement. She actually got to attend Wilby last year, which she she heard all the all the speakers and attended all the the whole thing, and she was a bit blown away. She just was impressed, right, with that focus. She she never had that door really kicked open for her like that. Um, but now that she's more of a part of it, right? I will I'll go to her because she's not the person that just says, Oh, it's gonna be okay. It's fine, you know. Here, let me give you a kiss, everything's great. She she comes with the right questions. And so she she's not one to let me have a pity party, she'll let me have my time, but also the time is to talk through it, open up, come to the realization of like here's here's what I need to do, here's what has been done, right? That's done, that's that's working well. And you're right, this didn't this didn't happen the way you thought it would. You know, what what would you do there? Why did it happen that way? What could you have done better? And it's it's you can have those conversations with with lots of other people, but it when it means a lot, you know, somebody's truly invested, uh, such as my wife, that's usually the person I go to. Um now that I am, you know, coaching with Steve, he's a person I go to as well. Two different approaches, um, but neither one of them let me, you know, wallow in my own self-pity. Uh, it's always picking me up, but I usually go to my wife first.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Yeah. Well, you you've highlighted uh an issue that that I've talked about with with one or two others on this podcast about that being a leader, certainly a senior leader, can be a lonely role. Uh when you don't necessarily have peers within the organization that you can do these things with, bounce these ideas off with, um, go go to with problems, or even those moments of of self-doubt or the imposter syndrome. Um, but it really is important. I'm glad that you've got your wife, Cassie, that you can turn to, Steve as a coach. Um, but it is something that that we as leaders need to have that stable of people inside the organization or outside that we can go to for perspective, for maybe a mental reset. Um it's it's it's vitally important.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

It is vitally important to have somebody you can talk to.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yep. On people, culture, and teams, what's one thing from your perspective that instantly erodes trust on a team?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Man, so I gotta say we've studied this for a while. Um, we focus on that, right? Instilling trust. There's so many things. Uh, but I think one of the things that we really, really focused on uh would be misaligned actions versus words, right? Um, saying one thing and behaving differently. Uh so as we talk through, so let's say we kind of restructured, we rebuilt our core values, it was very important to assign behaviors to those, right? Because words are words, but behaviors make them more realistic. And uh having guiding behaviors, guiding expectations um uh are something that we really, really focus on assuring that we buy into them, like we're all in, right? We have to be all in on these. We built these, the entire company, the employees built these. And so we're all in on these, but you have to live by them, right? We have to uh have that, you know, there's there's a fantastic tool, uh, management tool. One of my favorites called the line of choice. And as simple as it is, man, it's something you can wake up and just assess yourself immediately, right? Or in any situation comes, assess yourself immediately, but understanding that we always need to operate above the line. The reality is it's every day, every minute of the day, that's probably not going to happen. But how are you gonna bring yourself up? Knowing that you have an expectation, that you have core values, you've you've promised to deliver, you're a part of these. Whether you have a bad day or a bad hour, um, that's not an excuse to stray away from these. Understanding the words that we say, align them with the actions, um, and then making sure that we're using these right to direct our decisions, um, uh project planning, hiring, all of the things. Um, we developed a team around values, so our actions need to make sure that they support those.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Excellent. I I also love the line of choice model. And for those that aren't familiar with it, it's um just a simple graph where you've got a line in the middle of the page. On the above the line is accountability, is ownership, responsibility. Below the line is blame, uh, lack of responsibility, that type of thing. And so the the point is that we as leaders need to default to responding above the line, owning our shortcomings, owning the team's faults, owning, taking responsibility for our actions as opposed to blaming others. Uh, because that a group that tends to operate below the line is frankly, it's toxic, and none of us want to be a part of that. And so developing that norm top-down of of acting above the line does bring uh harmony, does bring clarity and uh a higher much more highly productive team. Absolutely. Similar topic. What separate in your perspective, what separates a good team from a great one?

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Um here just really talking about great teams, right? That's a lot of what we're pushing on. Um if you could even narrow it down again, so many things, but a great team has clarity. Clarity, understanding the vision of the company, the expectation of your position, how we operate, what our behaviors are. Um, and in turn, uh a great team understands and practices extreme ownership, right? That that's a priority for us this year. It was last year. Um as we were as we were developing better people, hiring better people, uh, also making sure that we have extreme owner, extreme ownership is is not only an individual expectation for that individual to own their position and do it well and know how their gear turns the others, but it's also an accountability for us to make sure that they understand what their expectations are, right? It's a two way street, I believe, certainly an organization, to make sure that they understand they have the tools. And um, you don't necessarily Have to get to the point of accountability because they're already doing it for themselves, right? And they can't, they're doing it with clarity. Um, honest communication is another one. Like I said, we have to have a ground, we have to have a culture that conflict is welcomed, right? As long as it's constructive, right? But healthy conflict is something that needs to be practiced consistently. Um, you know, there's there's uh uh a saying that I had heard, watched a podcast for a church that I go to here, and one of the statements was that uh leaders that can't be questioned do questionable things. That I mean, just listening to that, that hit me out of the whole you know, 45 minutes podcast, that was probably the most impactful.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

It was um it's in uh um direct support of what healthy conflict needs to happen. We have to have it, you got to be able to ask why, and we have to be able to tell you. And it can't be because I said so, because that's not how we operate, and that doesn't make people feel good, it doesn't help them understanding it. And I think when you have all three of those, at least three of those uh minimum things, a great team can win consistently under pressure. Right?

SPEAKER_00 45:07

That's great, excellent, excellent point. I love that quote that a leader that can't be questioned does questionable things. Yep, absolutely. I'll remember that one. All right, as we're getting near the end here, um, moving on to perspective and wisdom. What's one habit that's made the biggest difference in your leadership?

SPEAKER_01 45:30

So um, and I had to learn how to do this correctly, but I've uh I have found that journaling, right? No-taking has been a huge habit. You know, my my brain's not smart enough to remember everything I've ever heard, read, or even said. Um, but there's times, right? There's times when you know something will hit you. And either putting it in my phone, right, or or or carrying my remarkable or just a journal writing things down, it's great, I'd say, for me, uh, because it provides resources. You hear something good, you're going to a presentation, you're going to a conference or whatever, notes are key, so you can come back and reflect upon them. I can't have the expectation for myself to hear it and then practice it and remember it two, three months down the road, right? Because I'll lose focus and I will just get into other things. But when I have a practice of journaling and note-taking, and then also a practice of referencing back to these. It's been huge for me. It's been huge in conversations. It's been huge to notate something that I want to bring to my you know leadership team, say, hey, I heard something here. Let's look at this. Let's what do you guys think about this? All right, let's dive into it. And a lot of my teams, they do the same thing, right? We've we've turned into note-takers, and that's been a huge habit that's just helped me to be accountable to to um, like I said, always uh pursuing excellence.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

That's great. That's that's a practice that I've also used for for years. For me, the discipline of writing things down help helps me to internalize what I'm hearing. But as you've said, you know, we our our our memory leaks. I've not been good about referring back to the things that I've written. Um but I'm sure it's powerful that to look back and things that struck you on August 1st, 2025, to look back three, four months later and think, oh yeah, how's that played out? Um so yeah, journaling, journaling is powerful.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Good. What's one truth about leadership that took years to sink in?

SPEAKER_01 47:39

So it took a while. All the stories that we've talked about uh coming into a statement um that can be attributed to uh Jim Collins. Leadership is the art of getting people to want to do what must be done. Right. And so that was that took a while to sit in. It wasn't just finding people, paying them good money and hoping that they get it done, right? It's hiring the right people, giving them the right resources and the the right support to want to deliver on the mission that you want or that's been established for your team, and not only for them to want to deliver on it, but for them to create long-term success in this to help shape it for the future to dedicate their career, their focus, to want to come to work, right, and do this. And that that was something that really kind of that it took a while to sink in of not only where we is that, right, what leadership is, but how do you do it? Right. And it's taken a while, and I think it's come to exactly that hire great people, give them the resources to be successful and get out of their way.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Yep. That's great. Your your quote made me think of a there's a I think it's a similar quote from Tom Landry, former coach of the Dallas Cowboys, but I I can't, I don't have it in my mind. But he had a similar perspective that leadership is is helping people do things they may not want to do, but that are in the bigger, in the greater for the greater good, uh something to that effect.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Yeah, yes, very similar.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

What's the best compliment you've received as a leader?

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Oh man, so I never really considered myself a words of affirmation guy, right? Until you get them, until you get yeah, until you get meaningful ones. And then it really does resonate. So I it could probably summarize uh with the people that I engage with uh frequently, or even um what people have seen from the culture, I could summarize it to where they the compliments towards me is that you know they said you truly care about your people. You listen, you empower, you truly support your team, you care about the the clients that we serve, um, you care enough to make improvements. Um those are, I would say, even as of lately or last couple of years, it shows that what we're doing is is we're on the right path, right? And it hasn't just been me, obviously. I think I can't own as sometimes it are hard to do, but I think I can own identifying the direction and finding the right people, right? But the people, the right people that are in their respective positions are doing all these things, right? They're making that improvement, they're making that uh um, they're making those um uh things that are noticeable happen, happen quickly, happen effectively, and is starting to show, right? Whether I directly work with individuals or I'm a couple of people separated, a lot of the message comings seem to share the same thing. So that's been probably the best um most uh exciting compliment that it makes it excited that for me to you know continue to want to come here.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Sure. Well that that's great. And I I I see it and I hear the same things about about you and about Cap Rock. And I it in my experience across public sector, practicing law, working in higher ed, so much of the character and and tone of an organization reflects its leader. Um, and so when when a leader has that mindset that my goal is to serve, my goal is to care for my people. Um obviously there's a there's a profit margin and we need to be successful, but in doing so, we can care for our people. That's gonna permeate the organization, and and it sure seems like it has for CapRock. And so I know you've been very humble, and I know that you know there are things that um you know you you you probably make bad decisions here and there, and and that's natural for all leaders, but um if that's your base mindset, then then that is uh that's a healthy organization. Any last words of wisdom for our listeners that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01 51:44

You know, things that have been shared with me that haven't really taken root except for maybe the last two, three years. Um uh like I said, always been uh a person that wants to learn more, always on the pursuit of excellence, uh, never stop learning. But I'd say, and probably you hear this a lot of people hear it a lot, call it a cliche or what, there's probably a reason they say it, is to truly you know find a mentor. Find several, yeah, right? Several that that can meet you where you're at, and or some people that are maybe in a position or have responsibility that you're that you're looking to obtain, right? You're looking to achieve. Uh, and then really find a coach or an accountability person. Some people are ready for coaches, some people are not, but ideally you need an accountability person, somebody that's asking you the right questions, somebody that's making sure that you're you're pushing right on your potential, and uh that's holding you accountable to your thoughts, to your thought processes, and to what it is you're truly wanting to uh achieve. So um uh either way, a mentor is a your mentor and coach could be the same person, right? Accountability person could be all in the same. But find that person, find those people and utilize them.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

That's great, great advice. Well, Carlos, it's been great to talk with you.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Yeah, Lane, thank you so much, man. I appreciated this.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

It's been fun. Uh, it's been great to hear your leadership journey and to get practical takeaways that we can all incorporate in leading our teams. To those listening, thank you for joining me on the Leader Fast Lane. If today's conversation sparked a moment of reflection or a lane change in how you think about leadership, take a minute to share this episode with someone you lead or learn from. Listen in next time, and I'll be I will be joined by Andrew Natzios, professor and former director of the Scalcroft Institute of International Affairs at the George H. W. Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas AM University. You can find more episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep leading with purpose, integrity, and clarity, especially when it's hard.