Creating Us - A podcast for Texas Tech University System & beyond
A learning and development podcast focused on bringing the Texas Tech University System Values Based Culture to life.
Creating Us - A podcast for Texas Tech University System & beyond
The Leader Fast Lane - Episode 18 - with Dennis Mikula, Jr., CEO of the Land Improvement Contractors of America
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In this episode, I talk with Dennis Mikula, Jr., CEO of the Land Improvement Contractors of America (LICA). Dennis is an accomplished people-focused leader and world-class connector. In the episode, he shares:
5:37 - Leadership is more about people than operations
7:02 - His motto: People First. Purpose Always. Team Over All
11:51 - How to balance tradition and innovation/change
18:57 - How to maintain professional accountability without creating fear
24:06 - Leaders in new roles should focus in listening & relationship-building
35:24 - The importance of constructive conflict
37:41 - The difference between networking and relationship-building
Hello and welcome to the Leader Fastly, the podcast where I talk with accomplished leaders from higher education, public service, and beyond to share real stories, practical principles, and hard-earned lessons listeners can apply immediately. No buzzwords, no shortcuts, just real leaders sharing real lessons you can apply right away. I'm Lane Mears, Assistant Vice Chancellor for Leader and Culture Development at the Texas Tech University System. Today I am joined by Dennis McCula Jr., CEO of the National Land Improvement Contractors of America and Chairman of McCula Contracting. The Land Improvement Contractors of America is a nationwide trade association that connects contractors, industry partners, and stakeholders to promote land improvement practices focused on soil, water, and natural resource conservation. McCula Contracting is a third-generation family-owned company that offers excavation, demolition, and environmental services with over 80 years of experience serving New Jersey. With nearly 30 years of leadership experience, including 28 years as vice president, president, and now chairman, Dennis has played a key role in driving consistent year-over-year growth at McCullough contracting. Under his guidance, the company has earned a reputation as one of New Jersey's top land improvement contractors. Earlier in his career, Dennis spent over 20 years coaching high school and college football, where he built a leadership philosophy based on teamwork, discipline, and accountability. He continues mentoring young professionals and emerging leaders in both business and sports. Dennis lives in New Jersey with his wife Diana and their daughter, Lucy. It's great to have you on the show.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me, Lane. It's honored to be here today.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Well, I look forward to our conversation. We'll start just if you could please tell me a little bit about your background and leadership journey.
SPEAKER_01Sure. I appreciate it. Um you know, growing up uh growing up in a family business was something, you know, I I was very fortunate because I was able to see me you know my grandfather, you know, run the business. And as my father grew into the leadership role, so I got to see a lot of these leadership opportunities very early in my life. So that was, you know, I I always joke around, like my my uh my sandbox was a kid was was our yard, you know. So riding, you know, when everybody was playing with Tonka toys, I was on cat excavators and John Deere backhoes, you know, you know, grow growing up. So that was that was my early childhood. And then also being very active in sports, which led later led me into, you know, my my my other hat, you know, uh as a as a football coach, baseball and basketball coach through the years, and then primarily a football coach while I was, you know, working with andor running the family business. So I was able to, you know, merge a lot of the worlds together, you know, and and and some of the synergies between the business world and and the athletic and coaching world are you know very prevalent in the in my life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's great. Well, yeah, there's a there's a natural crossover in in sports leadership and and and business leadership, which I think we'll get into here in a in a in a little bit. So you spent years leading in construction, business associations, and community organizations and sports. What first drew you to leadership?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think growing up in a family business, you know, again, I was very fortunate uh to, you know, I'm I'm part of a third-generation family business. So I get the experience, you know, leadership from my, you know, watching my grandfather, you know, who founded the business in 1946, and you know, seeing in you know, obviously 80 years ago was a long time to where we are today, but watching and and learning the lessons and seeing how he and then my father years later treated everybody like family. Um, that that was the type of leader that I wanted to grow into, you know, where they were out there, you know, they were working seven days a week. They never did anything where they asked somebody else to do it that they didn't do it. So they were leading by example. Um, and that and that kind of got me my first introduction to leadership. And then secondly, you know, leadership were a lot of the coaches that I played for growing up, you know, were great leaders of either young men or men as as we got older, and seeing how they brought everybody together to team, you know, to work together as a team was something that always intrigued me. So I was very fortunate to learn again from my family who was running a business, and then from the young coaches or the coaches that ended up mentoring the young uh young men.
SPEAKER_00I I I hadn't put this together before, but 1946, your grandfather started uh McCullough contracting. Was he a veteran, a World War II veteran?
SPEAKER_01He was he was, yes, sir.
SPEAKER_00So he came back and started the business in 80 years old.
SPEAKER_01Started a business, uh, yeah, with a uh pickup truck and the shovel. That's how we started our uh you know, it was a lot uh a lot different back then. You know, again, he he wanted to do something on his own. He wanted to, you know, he was always in again, even though I saw him towards towards his later years, you know, the work ethic was something I will never forget. You know, even like I said, uh, you know, he was the first one up in the morning, last one off job sites, you know, when when my father was taking over, you know, as far as more and more the reins of the company, my grandfather was out on the equipment first thing in the morning. You know, that was something that was very um instrumental in my career, the leading by example. Sure.
SPEAKER_00What a legacy. Yeah. Was there a defining moment when you realized that leadership was more about people than operations?
SPEAKER_01Uh yes, actually, it was uh a few in my life, you know. One one comes to memory um watching my father, you know, and and watching my father lead. Um, I was very, very fortunate to watch him lead. He he it was always people first with my father. It was never um, it was never about the company, it was never about finishing a job, it was always about his people, his crew, his safety of them, the families. You know, you're in the construction business where it's you know, it is you have you have some dangers out there, right? You're heavy equipment, you're out on the roads, there's a lot, and every day, the only thing that was important to my father was that everybody came back safe and was able to go to their families safe every every evening. So watching that, he wasn't caring about the bottom line, he wasn't caring about a client getting after, you know, for a deadline. It was always about if you feel unsafe, put the machine and the equipment and pack it up and come back, you know, don't worry about it, I'll handle everything. So he was leading by example of showing, you know, that he cared first about their well-being over any bottom line. And I think that was again, it was such a lesson for me that you know that's why he had such loyalty, you know, and everybody would do anything because you know he he cared about them first. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Your LinkedIn profile says people first, purpose always, team above all. Was that part of did that develop from observing your father?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that exactly, you know, deserving him. The team above all came from you know the athletic background, being a coach and being a player for so you know so many years, and having a purpose, which I think is, you know, you know, again, if you if you look at you know the lesson I learned from him, right? People first, the purpose was, you know, we're coming back home safe every day, no matter what. And you know what, you need a team to do that, and everybody's looking out for each other. And I think whether whether you're looking at a business or again, an athletic team or and or program, right? It's what's the purpose, what are we working on together, but understand we are doing it together as people first. So that that's kind of where I put that together. And you know, that that's what I enjoy most about either hat or most of the hats that I wear that you know, we're working together, right? Right, but it's definitely the people come first in any any organization I'm a part of.
SPEAKER_00That's great. I mean, as as I think you know, Texas Tech is the system is very focused on values and values-based organizations and encouraging the different universities and and teams within the system to identify core values that define them and then operationalizing it, living it out. And um I know from interacting with you a little bit and hearing about your company and and uh that that y'all are doing that, and that I'm sure creates a family atmosphere. It's a family-owned company, but people that work there, I'm sure, have some security in those principles being the driving vision for what you all do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we were very uh fortunate in 2020. Um we were awarded the uh New Jersey State uh the family business of the year. And the great thing about it was when we were looking at statistics of at that point how many years the family members were in the business, the non-family bit members were in our business even longer, and they had a longer tenure. So I I I think that you know, again, it's it's to the legacy of what I've learned, you know, from my father and grandfather before is again, it's you're looking at, you know, it's a family business, but when you put your people first, right? That's that that's the most important thing you can do as a leader, and you're you're letting them know you're in it with them.
SPEAKER_00Follow up on that, and I I love that principle. Um, but I know running a business, there there are real bottom line concerns. You have to in order to be a going concern and to take care of your people, you have to be in a place to make money and and and survive. So um have you had moments where those two values conflicted? Like it's a people-first business, you want to take care of your people, um, but there's also the bottom line. How has that interplay been over the years for you?
SPEAKER_01I I think that's you know, again, coming from a family business, you know, some of those hard conversations you have to have sometimes, again, because it is a business, right? Like you said, it is a family business, which is different than a family. There's some tough conversations, and then the next day you're breaking bread at Thanksgiving, you know, with the same members around the table. Um yeah, I you know, I think that's you know, that's where trust is in, you know, comes involved. That's where um I think open and honest communication at all times, you know, and and I think the separation too, you know, where there's times to discuss business and there's times to have those round tables where it's a business discussion, and there's time to have the round table where you're around your family.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And again, learning that through the years, when it's family time, it's family time. You know, we're we're not discussing business at the at the dinner table or or when we're having our friends and family over. I think it's because there are some tough conversations you have, and I think a lot of times when it's somebody who you're seeing, whether it's at home or at a a family gathering, you know, it's not like you can shut it off at five o'clock, six o'clock, and then you you know you you're you're going home or the next day you're celebrating somebody's, you know, a celebration or a birthday. I I think you have to you have to draw that separation, those lines. But yeah, it it's it's difficult at times. And I think that's but again, open, honest communication, letting every know there's times when to talk about things. I I think that's that's where it comes from top down.
SPEAKER_00Good. Good. I've got uh a series of questions on some different themes that I'll I'll pose to you. This first theme is on the family business and legacy. So as as we've discussed, the McCula contracting has had a long family business history. From your perspective, what are some of the unique pressures of leading a legacy organization like this 80-year-old family business?
SPEAKER_01Change. You know, and I think that's you know, changing, changing with the times. Um, each generation, you know, in our you know, if I look back through the three generations, you know, again, again, you know, sorry, my grandfather were talking from 1946, you know, how everything was you know hard work, out, you know, working with your hands, getting you know everything, everything accomplished. Um, with if you look to today where the technology is, right, to make it more effective, more efficient. And then you look back at the second generation where you're my father's generation, that second generation was in between both, right? So you have the hard work, but it's starting to get more to technology. Computers are getting involved in you know, in the 90s and everything. And the resistance sometimes to change between the generations, I think, could potentially, and I've seen a slow growth, you know, in corporations and and and companies. And I think the willingness, you know, to be open and take it from one generation to the next, understanding how you have to move through is it it's difficult at times. But I think that's where again the open honest communication, these are things, let's look into it, let's discuss it. If it helps us, let's make a decision and move forward on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's good. I yeah, I've um a couple of years ago read a book by uh a a leader, I can't remember his name. Yeah, it's getting getting older. Um, but he he came into IBM when IBM, which had been this thriving, very corporate company that had gotten a bit stale and and set in its ways. And the book was about how he shifted how the company operated to modernize, to continue to operate. And so my question for next question for you is how do you balance honoring tradition, of which you are steeped in that since it's your your family business, while still pushing for innovation and change?
SPEAKER_01I think that's again, I think that's part of showing where you're not making change for change's sake, right? You're showing the value in the change. You know, I remember we were switching over from uh handwritten job tickets to uh an app on the phone where where you know our employees would be able to log in their time and what they did. And and one of my uncles was resisting the change a little bit, so I asked him if he could please hand me a cell phone for a second. He said, of course. And I walked away. He said, Where are you going? I said, Well, when you know when when my aunt calls, I'm gonna say, well, we didn't have cell phones 10, 15 years ago, so she can figure out a way. And he's like, All right, I got your point. And I think sometimes just by a little humor or showing now how we're becoming more efficient and we're we're we're not changing to change, right? We're changing because, and we're not necessarily changing because the competition is changing. We're changing because it best helps us effectively, you know, lead lead our company, a lead, you know, and and help our employees succeed. We want, you know, more time back in the in their lives versus sitting there filling out these tickets where they could push a button and move forward. So I think that's important, but I think you got to be open with the change too, you know, and explain why you're doing it. Uh, you know, and that's one thing that, you know, whether you're running a business or coaching, the explanation of here's why we're doing this or why we're looking into something, I think help ease his mind versus just saying we're doing this. Yeah. You know, again, leading by example, right? This is why we're changing.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Yeah, that's important. I appreciate that.
unknownAll right.
SPEAKER_00Our next theme is on culture and team leadership. You've spoken about learning from leaders like Patrick Lincioni and John Gordon. What ideas from them has most influenced your leadership approach?
SPEAKER_01I I you know that's that's a great question. I think there's two things when you look at both of them. Number one, they are constantly growing and learning, both both of them. I, you know, I've read all, if not most of most of their works uh and follow them. I actually uh uh just came back from a leadership conference with John Gordon a couple of weeks ago called Training Camp. And what I'm gonna say is part two of that is the leaders that they surround themselves with and that they get in the room is is impress is as impressive as their work. And I think when people come together, that's what they do. They get together the top leaders and and they have these conversations and open on conversations. I mean, part of the reason we're having this conversation today is a couple few years back, you know, I met uh had a day with John and Pat. I was very fortunate to meet, you know, Steve Thompson, you know, and and and the great thing was, you know, just meeting him in in that room, bringing great leaders like Steve together and and relationships are formed and you know, bouncing ideas off each other. That's that's what I admire about them. They're not done, it's a journey, it's not a destination for either one of those. So again, trying to live through that, I think, has definitely been um through their works and it's ongoing. Like they're they're living documents. That's what I love about them too, and the amount of you know, that they're always trying to strive to be better every single day in what they do and how they impact and influence people.
SPEAKER_00Yep. I confess I've not read any John Gordon. I need to, um, but I've read a lot of Patrick Lincioni. And what I love about him is obviously the the principles of teamwork and and dynamics and how a business can and should operate are are incisive, but the way he writes and the the the fables that he uses to get those points across are it's brilliant because if if listeners, if you're not running Patrick Lynchoni, generally the first two-thirds of his book is a is a fictional fable that you read, it's like reading a novel, but you through reading it you're getting the principles that he's aiming for, of leadership principles. And the last third of the book is is more of an academic laying out of those principles. But I've used particularly five dysfunctions of a team with teams in Zimbabwe and Rwanda and Jordan. It's just crossing cultures of what it really means to build trust, to have buy-in, to aim towards results. Brilliant stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's absolutely probably one of my favorite books of all time. And the working genius, you know, and just um you know putting our staff through that right now is uh is is is just great. But again, it it's con it's it's such such great conversation uh points for for leaders and their st in their teams.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Uh follow-up question on on this culture and team leadership team dynamics. Um you mentioned earlier on on the the the interplay between being a business and being a family business, and mentioned accountability, there needs to be accountability. How do you maintain accountability without creating fear with your employees?
SPEAKER_01I think when your employees, your staff, your colleagues know that you're in it with them, I think that lessens the fear. Like I think m a lot of fear comes when you feel you're out on an island by yourself. You have a deadline to meet, you're all alone. But when you're working together as a team, right? And you're you're counting on each other again with the accountability, right? We're we're working together for that purpose, for that goal. I think that's huge. I think that definitely I because again, when you work in a team, somebody's usually a little stronger at one point than another. So again, that's where you could kind of work together. I I I've seen that lessen fear. I've seen it on business, you know, groups, I've uh on staffs, I've seen it on uh athletic staffs. You know, when you're when you're facing something and work into it, but you know that we're all in this together, I think it lessens it lessens the fear.
SPEAKER_00Sure. That's a good point. Something we've talked with with leaders in the system about is particularly with accountability, if the team knows that the leader is, like you've said, in it with them, that the leader's interests are not advancing their own interests or career, but an interest in advancing the the development of the employees and the success of the team, then that fear is not going to be there.
SPEAKER_01Correct. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00But so it's it's it's up to the leader just to operate genuinely for the good of the of their employees and the team and to s put their interests behind those. And like we've talked about in a few of these episodes, that when when a team succeeds, leaders gonna look good. Um and so uh a leader shouldn't be out for their main main their own interests primarily.
SPEAKER_01And I think it's just removing the you know the I and you or I, you know, and and replacing with we and us, you know, and a lot of things I think that's very important too. It's you know, we're gonna work on this, it's us coming up with this this solution, you know, you know, versus you need to or I need to have this done for you. You know, I think that's important and how you speak with your team and have them understanding it's we and us is very important. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Great. All right, next theme is is on leading an industry association like Leica. Um so you recently stepped into the CEO role at Leica, the land improvement contractors of America. What attracted you to that opportunity?
SPEAKER_01You know, growing up in in the industry is definitely one. Um the opportunity To lead a national trade organization is something that I've always um I've been intrigued by. You know, I I love connecting. Uh I love connecting with leaders. I love connecting with membership and and partners. And this was an opportunity where I really felt I could give back to the industry. You know, I wanted to um, you know, again, being the you know, third generation, 80-year-old business, like I said in the beginning, growing up in the sandbox, this was the next step for me, you know, and it was a way to give back, you know, to to to our industry and and make sure we have a lot of challenging uh you know, we have a lot of challenges out there in our industry right now. And I think, you know, when you join in organization, one of the things, you know, with education and advocacy and you know, workforce development and building these programs and being able to work on a larger team, right? A nationwide team is something that's you know, it's been it's been an amazing, amazing start to this journey.
SPEAKER_00It's great. Well, just knowing you a little bit from our interactions, you're you're definitely a connector, uh, someone who connects well with people and has a knack for finding those connections that that uh you know to to help advance not only your interest, but the interest of the organization, other people. Um and so it sounds like your your interest in this role was just to have a greater impact, which I which I admire and respect. And I know that there's some big stuff being planned and uh look forward to seeing how how things develop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're excited about it. And again, it comes back to people first, right? We have some great, great people, you know, throughout our throughout the nation, you know, that are part of this. You know, I I came from, I was a president of the New Jersey chapter for for years, and just getting to work with the the staff from National and other presidents throughout the country kind of again led me to this. And right now we're working on some great things, but it it's together. And that's why I said I I'm excited of where we are right now. I'm excited of the direction of the organization and think the sky's the limit for uh for the different partnerships and opportunities we're gonna have for our membership.
SPEAKER_00That's great. So you've emphasized listening and relationship building in your early months in this role as CEO at Leica. Why is that so important? You've got 30 years of experience. Why aren't you coming in saying this is how we do stuff?
SPEAKER_01It's not sustainable. You know, if we if if I came in and said this is how we're gonna do things, again, that's a that's the um word we right, we want to eliminate the eye, but this is how we're gonna do things together. Um, you know, one of the first few months, you know, the the the board asked me, you know, um when I was taking over, or gonna say what what's your first 60, 90 days gonna be like? I said, I'm going on a listening tour. And and I said, I'm you know, I'm gonna talk to the I'm gonna listen to the stop state leaders, you know, I'm gonna meet with these state executive directors, the boards, former past presidents, and kind of get a lay of the landscape, right? To see what was going on, what issues are going out there. And I was able to then, you know, we had a national convention at the end of February, early March this past year, and able really to take all the feedback from all of the leadership, from membership. And right now we're crafting, you know, our plan moving forward, but listening to everybody, getting everybody's opinion, putting together, working in teams where you know, we have groups, we have different um, you know, we have different chairs going on right now. We have virtual committees where we're getting the voice of the industry heard, and that's how we're going to move it forward. You know, so again, I think I have so much valuable information in our leaders out there. It's it's my job to collect it, analyze it, go back to them and say, okay, what can we do together here to roll this out, to roll that out, versus, you know, anytime somebody hands you something and said, Here's here's our plan, it's you know, to me, I always take a step back and say, all right, but if we do this together, right, and we come up, and you know, I always said, again, we'll go back to coaching football a little bit, when I always said it, you know, it doesn't matter if I'm the head coach or the offense coordinator, if somebody comes up with an idea, it's our idea. We're gonna walk out there together as one unified front. And that's what we're doing right now with the organization. We're coming up, we're getting some amazing ideas and partnerships lined up because of the connections that we're all making, that we're all, you know, working together on this. So that that's been the exciting part.
SPEAKER_00I love that. That and that's a principle that translates across across sectors that coming in as a listener and aiming towards relationship building. Um I shared on a previous podcast episode my experience with this, with a working with a a small nonprofit in in Africa years ago, where one came in with years of legal experience and wanted to just say this is how we should do it. Another one, I came in like I respect these Kenyan lawyers, they've got lots of experience that they know the system like I don't. I want to learn. Um, and that just that communicates respect for for the people that you are newly working with, and I think it engenders trust in a new leader as well. So I love that perspective.
SPEAKER_01I I think a lot of times too, ego gets involved, right? And and and people believe that because and not necessarily ego is used in different ways, but not necessarily like they think because you are a leader or you have this title, you have to have all the answers. And the longer I go into this journey, I have fewer and fewer answers. But you know what? My network does, and my you know, and and the staff does, and our membership does, and the leaders do, and our or our community does. So again, being a connector, which I love doing, I love getting everybody's opinion, and that's how we come up with some great ideas. You know, I don't have to have all the answers, but having people around me that do is exciting, right? And and that's how great things get accomplished.
SPEAKER_00100%. Great. Uh our next topic is leadership under pressure. So construction and infrastructure work can be high stakes and and challenging, unforgiving work. How do you personally handle stress and pressure?
SPEAKER_01You again, personal personally handling stress and pressure, I think sometimes you got to take a step back. The quicker a decision needs to be made, the more you have to take a step back, take a deep breath, analyze it, and then get somebody on a call, on a Zoom, uh, in-person meeting, somebody who's been there before in this situation. When you're facing something, chances are you're not the first person that faced this pressure, this challenge. So again, we talk about building relationships and networks. My my my one call or my first calls go to people that have been in those positions. Uh, and another lesson learned from my father, he said, you know, listen to those who have been there before. And when they're willing to tell you about the mistakes they've made in the past and what they would have done differently, listen more. You know, and I and I think that's something that has really affected me. Like if I'm going through something that's high stakes, I'm gonna take a step back, think about who my connections are, and then reach out to that person and and kind of talk through it. Don't go through it alone, would be my, you know, is kind of how I handle it. Because I think we all think we can handle everything at times. And again, going through the journey is it it's about surrounding yourself with people that are genuinely connected to you, understand where you're coming from, and have been there. Right.
SPEAKER_00Have you had mentors in your professional life that have been those sounding boards for you?
SPEAKER_01I have uh yes, and I'm still continuing to build uh the the mentors. I've had uh again, we talked about my family when I was also when I was young into in getting into coaching. I had uh a gentleman who I first coached with by the name of Frank Bonadis uh in Patterson, New Jersey. I was a young coach and he took me under his wing and he taught me perspective of it's not always black and white, you know, and how you have to make, you know, how you work with young men and not everything is the same, you know. But at the end of the day, we have to play a game on Saturday. So we have to do the best we can to get everybody prepared to the way they understand, you know. Some, you know, which I and I'm gonna say kids, you know, young men back in the day when we're coaching, learn different than others. And that's our job to find out how to get that message across. So I've taken that same approach, you know, uh up through where I am right now. Not everybody learns in some way, not everybody interacts the same way, you know. So whether you're coaching somebody a technique on the football field or trying to show something in an office or conference setting, understand we're all not learning the same way. So I learned that, you know, that was that's back from the late 90s. Um, and I've kind of taken that with me, you know, and coming up with things that are um where everybody can learn, and everybody can make an impact. Once everybody feels that you know can make an impact, and I learned that back in the day, make some make somebody feel important like they have an they're what they're doing is gonna have an outcome on the game on Saturday afternoon. Well, it's no different than making somebody feel important, right? Because they're gonna have an impact on the decision that's made in the business setting.
SPEAKER_00I concur. Um and we you know, we we we work with a lot of leaders across the system of the different universities who may be in a new leadership role and wondering how to adapt and and but the principles like this are are vital and and unknowing your people, knowing what motivates them, helping them find their why, how they fit within the big picture is important. Uh just like in sports, you know, you got each each position group has their role in the big picture, people on your teams have have have key roles to play that they may not immediately see, but the the leader can illuminate and develop with them so that people can feel the importance of what they do day by day.
SPEAKER_01And I I think that's important too, with you just mentioned roles, right? And and I think a lot of times when you're on a team, no one role is more important than the other. Every every role plays a part in the outcome. Again, again, whether on the field or or in or in the boardroom, right? Ever everybody's role and and to feel you're part of something that's bigger than you, which it's again playing on a team, working on a board, running a national trade organization, it's not about you. It's about us, it's about the organization, right? And and I think that's where everybody, you know, plays that plays a role in that growth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What's the hardest conversation you've had to lead through as an executive?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think some of those conversations as an executive were, you know, we we touched a little bit earlier on with the family business. You know, some of them are difficult conversations where you have to have um open, honest line of communication with somebody who's working with you that's in the generation above you. You know, somebody that's been a long time colleague that's you know maybe seeing things differently than you are. And I think again, it comes back to the trust, right? You know, as far as building that trust one-on-one where this is a business decision, not a family decision. Those are those have been some of the hardest ones that I've had through the years. Um, conversations with my father, you know, and my father, like I said, you know, passed away a few years ago. You know, he was, you know, my father, my business partner, my best friend in a in in one person. But we had some very difficult conversations, direction of the company, direction of staff, different things we wanted to do. And they weren't always easy, but there was a trust there. We trusted each other. And I think if you don't have the trust built, uh, no matter who you're working with for, no matter what direction it is, I think those conversations become harder. But when somebody trusts that you're looking out for the organization or the team or the program, and that is the best interest, I think those conversations become a little easier. That you know, that we're all in this together. We have to make a decision here, and we're gonna do what's best for the organization, not an individual, sometimes. And I think those have been some of the harder conversations I've had, Lane.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And that that parallels with with Lynn Shoney's five dysfunctions of a team model at the foundation of any high-functioning team is trust. And so the primary responsibility of a leader, a new leader or an older leader, is to work toward building that trust because it does make those conversations maybe not easier, but more fruitful, less personal. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And in carrying on with again, with the five dysfunctions, I think fear of conflict. I think a lot of you know, organizations or leaders or um not everybody loves conflict. I actually encourage healthy discussions. Healthy conflict is good. We we don't want to have the same ideas, you know, we want to bring everything to the table, but they have to have that trust to know they're going to, right? Or you're gonna be vulnerable at that situation and say, listen, I think we should be doing it this way. All right, let's let's sit down and discuss it versus no, we're doing it my way again, those terms, you know, let but let's look at what's what's best. But encouraging those conversations. And you know, if somebody comes to me and they're adamant about doing it one way, I'm gonna listen. You know, I again I I want to hear what it is, it's a different perspective, and I'm willing to try anything, you know. Let let let's see it, you know, because again, I I do not have all the answers just because my title might say CEO doesn't mean I have the answers. It just it just means that I'm in charge of the organization, right? And doing what's best for the organization. But let's bring let's bring all these ideas together and let's you know it let's encourage great conversation, which sometimes people, you know, yeah, it it's it's conflict sometimes. We conflict in our ideas or the way we want to do things, but healthy conflict is very good for an organization. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Yep. That's great. Well, just your whole your whole perspective on all this whole conversation and my interactions with you just reminds me that that humility is one of your defining characteristics, and that that really does it's it's a great asset for a leader who's willing to listen, willing to admit I don't know everything, I need input, I've got experts on my team to draw on. Um and there's not a fear of people outshining you. It's again, like you've said, the best outcomes for the organization and the team. Um and so I I admire you for that.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate that. And like I said, that's many, many years of surrounding myself with some amazing people. Um and and that's that I think that's the most important part of my leadership journey is I'm still surrounding myself with better and better people every single day. Great.
SPEAKER_00All right, my last theme is is on something we've talked about, but relationships and networking. In in our conversation and elsewhere, you've consistently emphasized that relationships the the the relationships and connections um in your leadership posts. What's the difference between networking and genuine relationship building?
SPEAKER_01I think networking people see that as a way to exchange information sometimes when they're out networking, they're trying to meet with somebody in a specific room for a specific reason and get a specific business card to get you know for for an ass. I I've seen that a lot. Um and I've kind of I I've definitely have changed my opinion of that through the years. Genuine relationship building is getting to know the person, not the title. You know, and when I when I meet with people at a networking event or I'm out at a business event, or uh, you know, I I think a lot of times I I am there's conversations, I'm gonna say most of the times I do not know that who the person who they're working with unless they have you know a company shirt on or a logo or what they're doing. I genuinely want to know the person because the title behind is what they do, not who they are. And I, you know, and you know, be being the connector, which I said I I love doing, it it doesn't matter to me, you know. And I remember you know some of the best connections I've ever made, some of the best friends I have in my life I've met at events, and I think I went home not knowing what their title was and what they were doing. I think you use, you know, again, the genuine, you know, just getting to know people, yeah. And again, open up, being vulnerable, asking com asking questions, you know, again, who we are and what we do for a living, a lot of a lot of times are separate, right? Like I don't I don't walk around introducing myself as a CEO. I'm just Dennis, right? And and we're we're gonna strike up a relationship and where that goes, it goes. And I think that's missed sometimes in networking events, right? And and I I just again, there's a lot of value to them. I mean, I meet people every single day, but going and getting to know the person, not the title, has always been important to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that principle. Getting to know the person, not the title. Because uh, would you say you're an extrovert?
SPEAKER_01I would say, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do get I do get energy. Uh um, it it's so funny because in in multiple staffs that I'm on that I'm a part of a board, you could really see the extroverts and introverts, you know. And again, I I get energy from going out and meeting and connecting with people. Like I enjoy that probably more than anything else I do is and and not only connecting when I meet somebody trying to get them connected with somebody I know. Sure, you know, I get a lot of energy from that.
SPEAKER_00The great thing about this principle, the getting to know the the person, not the title, is that that works for introverts as well. I mean, introverts, and I I've tended to be default more towards introvert than extroversion. Introverts tend to want to have real relationships with a smaller group of people. And so they can be intimidating to go to these big events and meet people. But if the goal is to get to know people and not network, I think that's uh that's an open door for for even introverts to engage in your relationship. Um, and so I think that that's a that's a a statement that plays across people.
SPEAKER_01Well, I it's interesting you said that because I work alongside a couple of introverts, and when I'm at those events, I try and connect them with somebody I believe would have good synergy with them and good connection because for them in front of a large room, whether it's hundreds or thousands of people sometimes in some of these rooms, right? Yeah, where do where do I start? With me, I'll start with the person standing next to me, you know. And then once I found that out, can may I introduce you to somebody, and then you know that connection's gonna, you know, gonna go somewhere. But um, yeah, it it could be, you know, it could be in and I see it intimidating in these larger rooms and you know, even even smaller rooms, right? Where do you start? But again, if you go up just genuinely get one to know the person, not word, you know, what they're doing, but who they are, you'll you'll you'll get into pretty some pretty good conversations. And and sometimes there's a true connection that's outside your jobs, right? Whether it's family, you know, you know, raising kids, you know, a lot of times they'll come into my conversational talk about my passive coaching football, and all of a sudden, you know, we're we're we're we're down a path that way. So it's it's exciting when when when you find that connection, you know, you never know where it's gonna go.
SPEAKER_00That's great. So shifting towards younger leaders, um listeners who may be newer in leadership role, how should younger leaders think about building professional credibility?
SPEAKER_01You know, I I I think that's a great question. I think younger leaders um should not be away, uh not be afraid to reach out um to those they admire, you know, what whether it's a business leader, a coach, an author, um and and build your network. You know, again, we're we're we're talking about that. I think younger leaders, you know, it's more isolated these days, and I and then you know, you see fewer and fewer younger leaders sometimes out at events because it's easier to get the information online, but the genuine connections, getting to know people, asking questions, listening, right? I I think that's what you know, getting a mentor or a few mentors in your area of expertise or where you want to go is very important. You know, those that have been there before you are always willing to share their stories, right? They're always looking to help. So I think, you know, again, one of the things with with younger leaders is looking with those who have been there, and again, taking the advice of if they're willing to share a story where they're vulnerable and said, Hey, I made this mistake, I would have done this differently. Listen and soak that all up.
SPEAKER_00I I love that. And it's just making me think I'm gonna I'm gonna share, I'm obviously these episodes broadly, but I've got a few people in in particular in mind that I want to uh share on this. Alright, we're getting close to our end here. I want a closing question for you. Twenty years from now, when people talk about Dennis McCullough Jr.'s leadership, what do you hope they say mattered most?
SPEAKER_01He was a great teammate. You know. Um and it's a great question. You think about it, right? We're all teammates, whether it's family, work, social, friends, you know, that you know, when you think about what a great teammate there is, a great teammate is somebody that's always there. You know, not just the good times with the but the times where where you where you need a hand. And I think that's something that, you know, through the years, that's something that I would really, you know, looking back, that's something I'd be very proud of if they said, you know, he was he was a great teammate. And that again for for various aspects.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Thank you. That's great. Um, one last question. Who's gonna win the NFC East this year?
SPEAKER_01NFC East. Well, you know, we're gonna have to say the Giants, but uh of course. It's uh that's stay away from that one, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, Dennis, man, it's been it's been a pleasure to talk with you. I thank you for taking the time today. Um, really admire admire you and and and getting to know you uh has been beneficial for me, and I'm I'm sure it will be for our listeners as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Lane, I like again honored to be on. Thank you so much. I appreciate our friendship and uh look forward to building on that as well. So thank you for all you do.
SPEAKER_00My pleasure. It's been great to hear your leadership journey and get practical takeaways we can all incorporate leading our teams. Listeners, thank you for joining me on the Leader Fast Lane. If today's conversation sparked a moment of reflection or a lane change in how you think about leadership, take a minute to share this episode with someone you lead or learn from. Join me next time, and my guest will be Cole Johnson, Executive Vice President of Operations and Chief Operations Officer at Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. You can find more episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep leading with purpose, integrity, and clarity, especially when it's hard.
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