Creating Us - A podcast for Texas Tech University System & beyond
A learning and development podcast focused on bringing the Texas Tech University System Values Based Culture to life.
Creating Us - A podcast for Texas Tech University System & beyond
The Leader Fast Lane, Episode 29 - with Andrea Sparks, Dir. of Government & Strategic Relations with Buckner International
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Andrea Sparks joins The Leader Fast Lane to share leadership lessons from a career devoted to protecting vulnerable children, including her work helping build Texas’ response to child sex trafficking. We discuss servant leadership, the importance of listening and collaboration when tackling complex problems, having the humility to pivot when an approach isn’t working, and sustaining yourself while doing difficult, high-stakes work.
Hello and welcome to the Leader Fast Land, the podcast where accomplished leaders from higher education, public service, and beyond share real stories, practical principles, and hard-earned lessons listeners can incorporate in their everyday work. No buzzwords, no shortcuts, just real leaders sharing real lessons you can apply right away. I'm Lane Mears, Assistant Vice Chancellor for Leader and Culture Development at the Texas Tech University System. Today I am joined by Andrea Sparks. Andrea is Director of Government and Strategic Relations for Buckner International, working to protect children, strengthen families, and serve seniors. She is also the co-founder of Not on Our Watch Texas, a nonprofit that educates on and advocates for online safety of children. Andrea served as the founding director of the Texas Governor's Child Sex Trafficking Team, the Executive Director of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's Texas Regional Office, and the Director of Public Affairs for Texas CASA, court-appointed special advocates. Andrea has been married for 31 years to Grant Sparks, Assistant United States Attorney for the Western District of Texas. They are proud parents of two grown children and a rescue dog. It's great to have you on the podcast, Andrea.
SPEAKER_00Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01I'm looking forward to this conversation. We've met each other 30s, not quite 30 years ago, a long time ago, but lots happened in our lives since then. So I'm looking forward to diving into your leadership journey. Can we begin there with a little bit about your background and leadership journey?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Sure. I ended up in law school because I didn't know what else to do. And I had tried to avoid law school. I went up to DC to work for uh Senator Breaux from Louisiana. My senator enjoyed it immensely, but he was like, okay, what are you gonna do next? You need to go to law school. I don't want to go to law school. You need to go to law school. Came to law school and um pretty much realized right away that I was interested in the public interest aspects of that. Um, but as one does, when you do well in law school, you are under a lot of pressure, right, to do the right things, like work at a court and you know, accept a job at a law firm. And so I would say my my leadership journey really started right in that space when I had to make some decisions, some life-altering decisions. And um and and what I mean by that is like I think the most important thing about being a leader, and I don't know if this is in the books that people write about leadership, is just being authentic to yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and if you if you listen to and discern what you're meant to do, and I believe we're all called to do something, um leadership can almost come naturally. It's kind of like it's meant to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I like that. That's good. And and frankly, I I'm convinced that people around leaders can sense when there's inauthenticity.
SPEAKER_00And it's uh and it makes it harder to lead, right?
SPEAKER_01Not leading out of the authentic self, sure. Great. Well, as I said, we met many years ago and we were both brand new law school graduates and clerking at the Texas Supreme Court. When and how did your interest and passion in protecting vulnerable children arise?
SPEAKER_00Um, so I tell my firstborn Madeline, she's 28 now. I tell her all the time, you saved my life. Um, as I said, I was about to go into a law firm situation that I knew I did not want, but I thought it was the right thing that I was supposed to do that, right? It was the thing that was expected of me. And um, I had gotten married in law school and um I was pregnant and working for Judge Baker at the Texas Supreme Court when we were there together. And the minute I found out I was pregnant, I knew I wasn't gonna go to that law firm. Um I basically had to make decisions about, you know, if I have to put my daughter in daycare while I go to work, I'm gonna be doing work that is very, very meaningful to me. Or I'm not gonna do it. Yeah. Um, I mean, I had to work because we were we were young and poor starving lawyers, you know, but um so almost at that instant I knew I wasn't gonna go to the law firm. Um, Judge Baker. I tell you, it it happens, right? If you if you do what you're meant to do, things kind of happen. Um turns out he had a position as a staff attorney open. So I moved from law clerk to staff attorney and was able to do that. And upon my second child, told the law firm I was not coming and um made a decision right then and there to represent children uh in the foster care system as an attorney and um did that part-time while I had little ones at home, and it was such an amazing experience. I learned so much from that. And once you do that work, you can't really ever stop doing some facet of that work.
SPEAKER_01100%. You know, when I we we left in 09 to move overseas with this nonprofit international justice mission, and you know, you you can only be gone so long before it's difficult to get back in the profession of law. But I but like you just said, it it like it ruined it for me. Like once you've done something that really is not that the practice of law is insignificant. I mean, I I have friends who've been doing it for a long time that are making a great difference and doing great work, but um, once you've connected that with your passion and what your you feel like a calling is, then it's tough to go back to something that's not that.
SPEAKER_00I remember when you left. I remember going, oh my gosh, what is he doing? That's so wild, that's so brave.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. But it, you know, that people have told me that that it was what either they said it was really stupid, maybe no practice to go volunteer in Africa, or it was something great, but it because it was connecting with something, it felt like this is what I'm supposed to do. It didn't feel like a sacrifice, didn't feel like something exceptional, it felt very natural. Yeah, like you've talked about. Um, I've got a series of questions based on some different themes, um, all touching on various aspects of leadership tied in with your experience. And uh so I'll highlight those themes before we get into, but one more question on your background is that you've worked, as you've said, about as an attorney, an advocate, a policymaker, and a nonprofit leader. What role has taught you the most about leadership?
SPEAKER_00I think that's a trick question. I've been thinking about this for 24 hours or so since you sent me these questions. And I don't know if I can answer that question. I think each role taught me something different and slightly related about leadership, even as you know, a solo practitioner attorney where you're not like leading other people in a firm, you got to get up and work on your cases every day. You know, you have to show up for these kids. You have to um act as a leader in the courtroom. And when you're at the table with the Department of Family and Protective Services and the attorneys for, you know, the mother and and the cost, I mean, so I think each role is different. I would say um, you know, the nonprofit leader role is is probably unique in that you are not just working on behalf of people you serve, but you're working behalf on behalf of the public as a nonprofit. You know, the public owns nonprofits, and you're working on behalf of all these people who work with you in this nonprofit. And it's up to you at the end of the day to make sure the lights stay on, people get their paychecks, people are doing a good job with the job they've been entrusted with. Um, that's a lot of responsibility. And um, but also, you know, if you surround yourself with I I this is what I do. I surround myself with people who are smarter than me, and it makes it all easier.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00Um, and and that's you know, that's part of leadership too, is just saying, I don't know this as well as you do. So you need to teach it to me.
SPEAKER_01We've I've had lots of guests on the podcast that have had that same sentiment that the key to leadership is surrounding yourself with people that are smarter than you. In some dynamics, that can be a real challenge, though. Um, if there's some competition, some insecurity on a leader to having people more smarter than you or people that are smarter than you that may think, why aren't I in that big chair? Have you how do you manage that dynamic?
SPEAKER_00Um, I think being open and having open conversations, you know, if if the a conflict arises, because, you know, let's say I had to hire someone, I I hired someone who was, I mean, super brilliant, but much older than me and much more um expert at the topic than I was. And um I think just being open about that, you know, like listen, yeah, I know you've been doing this for years and years. I'm fairly new to this. I need you to trust me that I can kind of figure out like what you know our organization needs and wants, and I'm gonna plug you in to be that expert in your plane, what you do. Um and I think that works with varying degrees depending on who you're talking to. But I I I think, you know, being a leader, again, it's about being authentic, about being open. And that includes exposing your vulnerabilities, sure, you know, and um and caring about the people that you meet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And we we may get into that a little bit down the road here. Um, but our first theme beyond the opening ones is is on your work in anti-trafficking, human trafficking. So people hear the term human trafficking and and may think they understand it. What do you think are the biggest misconceptions about human trafficking, what the public understands about it?
SPEAKER_00I still get this question and it blows my mind. People go, wait, you're talking about kids from overseas, right? Um, yes and no. I mean, I think the biggest misconception is that this this is somehow happening over there. This is not happening to our children, this is not happening in our community, and it is. I mean, here we are sitting in Lubbock, Texas. When I was at the governor's office, this was a major hotspot for human trafficking. Why are there three, four, five organizations serving trafficking victims in Lubbock, Texas? Because there are trafficking victims in Lubbock, Texas, and they're from Lubbock, right? Um, so people need to understand this is a hidden crime. It does not present like the movie Taken, you know, where you're uh violently abducted. I mean, sometimes, but the vast majority of trafficking cases, the traffickers are someone that this vulnerable person knows, loves, trusts. Um, we even have familial trafficking, unfortunately. And um, it's really hard to tell that person's a victim because they don't even understand themselves that they're being victimized. Many of them believe this is just how it is to love someone. They've grown up that way, or they're so tricked into thinking this is what love looks like. So I think there's still a lot of misconceptions about trafficking. And I don't think we do ourselves any favors when we have, you know, public awareness campaigns with tape over the mouth or hands tied in rope, you know, because that also tells the victims out there, well, I must not be a victim because my hands are not tied. Sure. I can speak. Why am I not telling someone this is happening to me? I must not be a victim, I must be doing this willingly.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's um I I used to know some of the statistics, but the amount of money involved in trafficking globally is mind-blowing billions of dollars. Add in the child online exploitation, th those types of things, and it is one of, if need not the biggest uh financial crime in the world. Looking back over your career, where have you seen the greatest progress in combating child trafficking?
SPEAKER_00I think it it it we we make progress and then we slide back, and then we make progress and we slide back. And I can think of a few periods where I was just very hopeful that we were making lots of progress. And and this is why you know this this crime is so hard. People make a lot of money, people can do this without a lot of risk to themselves. We're not seeing it, we're not investigating it, and we're not prosecuting it because it's very, very difficult to do all three of those things. And so when you get that kind of perfect storm where you've got a really good nonprofit organization who is identifying and serving victims and getting them ready to um to talk about being victimized and even understand that being victimized, and you have an investigator or two who's well trained and has a lot of empathy and wants to do the right thing and is trauma-informed, and you have a DA who is not afraid of these hard cases, who's willing to go the extra mile to work with the victim to get them ready to testify, or even to take this case with minimal victim testimony, then we can make progress. And those cases, you know, hit the paper, and then I feel like, okay, people are on notice. Um, but then there's turnover, there's turnover, there's changes. Um, I think right now, too, we we were making progress as far as educating kids about trafficking and and um and then came COVID and everything changed, and everything is happening online now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so the way that traffickers recruit and groom and trap kids is so different. And kids aren't, you know, kids think they're playing an online game with their friends, and this new friend that they might have been playing with for months, you know, suddenly starts sending them inappropriate photos or asking them to send a photo, and and then it starts. So everything is changing um so rapidly. It's it's hard to say we're making progress because it's like it feels like we're we're just barely keeping up.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Yeah, with the rapidly evolving technology and new ways of masking predators, it's it's incredibly difficult.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Can you talk a little bit about the uh the playsafe? Now play safe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um, so not on our watch is a nonprofit I co-founded with Lisa Beth Thomas. We do it as a side project, passion project. Um, we're volunteers, and one of our board members um was trying to help us think of ways to educate kids and parents. One of our big mission points is we want to educate to prevent, and we want to advocate in the legislature for changes to laws that help prevent child exploitation and online harms. So one of our board members came up with this safety game. It's a 10-minute game, and it's really driver's ed for first-time gamers. You know, you wouldn't just hand the keys to a car to one of your kids and say, okay, go try it, have fun. Um, we think this game prepares kids for some of the things that predators do in online chats to groom and trap them into exploitative situations. So it's uh appropriate for ages, I would say nine to 16, but I've heard from a lot of parents that their kids are playing games at six and seven. Yeah. Um, and I think it's really good for parents to play this game with their kids so they can also see what predators are doing and practice reporting to Nick Mick and to and to having these conversations with their kids. Because what's going to happen is, and I've heard this, I get calls every week from parents, oh my gosh, little Johnny just came in and told me that he's being exploited online, that he sent a picture he wasn't supposed to send, and I'm so upset and I don't know what to do. And you know, and and if you're upset, think about what your kid is going through, especially if you reacted that way. So we have to be prepared. We have to be prepared to to to understand, to hear them, to understand, to be empathetic, that these predators online are pretty manipulative.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00And they're gonna find a way to get to your kid. Um, and we can only do so much. And if that happens, we have to be prepared to to respond in an empathetic and caring way that assures the child that we're on their side and we're gonna help them with it and not just they're not gonna be in trouble.
SPEAKER_01Well, we were just at the Texas Women in Business Lunch and Love It chapter here on on this topic and had a time to play the game for 10 minutes. And what struck me about it was that um, you know, like when we were kids and told, you know, don't talk to strangers, don't take candy from strangers, don't get in a car with a stranger. And we still remember that when we were kids. And this game is is probably intended just to have that voice back in the kids' head. If someone is, you know, asking about how old you are online, and if they're asking for, you know, where do you live? That by playing this game, talking with parents, they might have that voice in their head that triggers them, okay, I shouldn't be doing this. Yes. Um, and that's there's some power in that. There's yes, some mute benefit in that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great. Yeah, I'm I'm glad you have that experience. That's exactly what we're trying to do is build the skills to identify these red flags. And then what do you do? And you know, you could click, should I give them my address or should I go tell my parent or should I report this? Yeah. And so just practicing doing the right thing.
SPEAKER_01That's good. It's great. So um you helped build Texas's response to child sex trafficking, you know, from the ground up, this new task force that the governor created. What leadership lessons for you came from creating something that had never existed before?
SPEAKER_00Wow, this was a big one for me. Um I was appointed on April Fool's Day. 2016. It's like, okay, April Fools, go figure out child sex trafficking. Um, I think the biggest lesson for me was I'm I tend to be a type A person. I want to get it done. I want to get it done myself, and I want to get it done pretty quickly. Um and that that was not gonna work here. There was a lot of listening, there were a lot of focus groups, there were a lot of um, you know, survivor groups as well as law enforcement, you know, all the different stakeholders, and they challenged some of our assumptions that we thought going into this were gonna work. And so really listening and really taking the time to incorporate their input into our design. Um, it was frustrating at times. We didn't go as fast as I wanted, but I feel like what we created is still going today and um is still being upheld by the governor's office today and by other states now. Yeah. Um that that was hard for me, but it was it was a great lesson and just like this, there's too much at stake to get it wrong. Sure. Right. And also my my staff made me a t-shirt that just said, let's just pivot. Because um when something wasn't working, that's okay. We're learning as we go, we're flying the plane while we're building it, right? Um, so let's try it. And oh, we have to tweak it, we have to pivot and not being afraid to say, you know what, we thought that was gonna work and it didn't. So we got to try something else.
SPEAKER_01That's a that's a just discipline not to be so married to your course that you can't pivot depending on the facts on the ground. I don't know if you know this, but I applied for that job as well. And I'm glad the better person got it. Um, but what struck me as I was doing the research in in that was that at that time, and and probably still to some extent today, that there were so many disparate aspects of our society that were focused on an aspect of the problem, but that were so disconnected. Yeah. Law enforcement, nonprofit, medical, all that stuff. So, what what was it like for you trying to bring some coherence?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, these diverse that's exactly what we did. That's exactly the problem. That's exactly what was the solution is bringing them together. So we took the model of the children's advocacy centers and their multidisciplinary teams, and we created multidisciplinary teams for this issue. Okay. So all those disparate, you know, um perspectives and fields of experts in a room or at least via conference call together staffing these cases. That's what it took.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, because it one, you create a team that really works best together, you know, they they get to work well together after a while. Two, it's built-in accountability. You're accountable to each other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um, and you know, the hard part was was kind of walking alongside these teams and getting them to do some self-reflection on how they were working together and getting them to be the ones to go, you know what, law enforcement, we're not liking how you talk to the victims when you pick them up. You know what, hospital, we need you to have a separate space for our victims when they come in because sitting in the ER room with all these little kids and parents is really triggering. Um, you know what, like just different, really trying to improve the system from within. And I'm so proud to say I think that's happening now. I think these teams are still, you know, despite turnover and all these things, they're still working, they're still identifying, recovering victims, doing that long-term care staffing and um and helping victims finally break free. And so um that that's how we did it. We brought all the experts in the room together, kicking and screaming at first.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, and listeners in higher education may be wondering how that apply to my work, but I, you know, a university or a university system, like many organizations, like many issues, can have silos, independent groups that are in some sense working on the same issue, but not together. And this discipline of bringing people together, bridging those gaps, finding the common goal and common and where each can play a part really is there's the synergy in that that is necessary.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01All right, I'm gonna shift to the topic of servant leadership. You've described yourself as a servant leader. What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00A couple of things. One, I feel like I'm a servant. I've I've been put on this earth to be a servant, you know, that um I serve God, I serve my fellow people, the earth. Um, and it's a reminder to me that that's who we really serve. Yeah. Um, two, I think to be an effective leader, you have to serve the people you lead. I mean, that's what it is. It's about pouring in to the people you lead and getting them to be the best version of themselves that they can be in this role. Sure. So um that's kind of I think what I mean by that.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I actually love that. I I still, although I don't manage people at Buckner, I'd still always have an intern or two. And it's it's one of my favorite parts of my work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I just last week did a three-hour session with some marine recruiters in Fort Worth on this topic of servant leadership. And I anticipated this and it did come up a little bit, but there are some people who picture servant leadership as being weak or passive. How would you respond to that perspective?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I don't know how you are a good leader unless you're a servant leader. You, I mean, unless you just maybe the military is different. Okay, maybe the military is different because it's so top-down and it's it's just a different structure, but that's not gonna work in the nonprofit space, and that's not gonna work in the policy space, and that's not gonna work in business, you know. I mean, I I think most areas where you have leaders, you really do, it's a collaboration, it's a it's a give and take, it's it's serving those who you lead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um yep. I I concur. Um, and you know, I did get this uh perspective that came up in that that workshop last week. Um, but but just as a counterpoint from the marine perspective, yeah, I mean, there is that mindset that we're top-down orders can mean lives, which is true. Yes, but marine doctrine says that one of the one of the 11 leadership principles is know your people so that you know what their strengths are, know how to motivate them, know how to build them up. And so it's written into the doctrine. Yeah, but it yeah, the context may be different in the field, life or death situations, people follow orders or bad things happen, uh, but you can still be a servant leader in the midst of of high stressed moments.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and to be clear, I'm not saying you don't hold people accountable, right? Like that's that's part of it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I think that's what's so difficult. You you want to know your people and you care about them, yeah, but you also have to hold them accountable. Um, and I'll just say, you know, clear is kind, being clear and transparent and having difficult conversations, and just say, you know, we're gonna have conflict. Like that's just gonna be part of it. It's gonna be, but it it doesn't have to be counterproductive. It can be productive.
SPEAKER_01As a young leader for this nonprofit in Africa, I I think my bent is servant leadership, but the way initially that manifested itself is is I was aiming for kindness and like had an under underperformer that I was just you know meeting with the person and trying to encourage them, but there wasn't the accountability. That I had to learn that because accountability really is kindness. Yeah, you're really aiming to develop the other person. Yeah, if they're underperforming, dig into why is that? Are they don't have the resources that they need, they don't have the knowledge of the job, or they're just in the wrong spot. Yeah, and so accountability as a servant leader really is about improving that other person's life, whether it be with your butt on your bus or not. That's right. And that'll build up the team as well. And so that's that's kind of I think that's a pitfall for a lot of young leaders is making that shift to accountability being part of it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, it's hard. I mean, I had to learn it for sure. It's you know, it's hard to hold people accountable sometimes when they're when you when you love them, right?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Has there been a leader in your life who modeled servant leadership in a way that shaped you?
SPEAKER_00There's been a few. I would say, um, so my boss at Texas Casa, Joe Gagan, he really saw something in me that I didn't see myself, and and really helped shape me to be a policy advocate, um, and held me accountable and also gave me, you know, more and more opportunities to do that. And um and I I saw him struggle also, as all leaders do, with holding other people accountable, right? And um he was just a kind he was such a kind man and he was very passionate about the work. And I think when you're passionate about the work, this is what we talked about earlier, when you're when you are doing something you authentically believe in, that passion has a lot of power.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00And it it can help hold people accountable, you know, even when you're uncomfortable doing it, yeah, when they see you setting the example about how to do this, and and you can, I mean, it's pretty obvious when you're passionate about what you're working when you're not.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00And so some people just self-select, I'm not I'm not here because of that. I'm here because it's a decent job and I don't really care that much. Right. So there's something off here. And then they might leave, right? Which is which is kind of what you want. Sure. You want them to make that decision on their own.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I I saw that happen. Um, and I think it was a beautiful way to to kind of develop the people who need it to stay and be developed and uh and then to let the other ones go do something else.
SPEAKER_01Invite them off the bus, as one of my mentors has said. Good. Um, we're gonna shift to talking about a little bit about Buckner International, your current employer. So Buckner's mission is centered on strengthening families before crises occur. It's a bit of a shift from some of your response-focused work. How has that preventive approach changed your thinking?
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow. Um, I really was starting to get a little burned out working on child exploitation and human trafficking. It happens, right? And I really wanted to move upstream and prevent some of this stuff because I just kept seeing, you know, once once these kids are victimized, um, it is so hard. They have such a hard road. And we knew which kids were headed toward the cliff, right? It's kids who don't feel a sense of belonging, don't feel a connection, um, vulnerable children who are in you know, foster care, the juvenile justice system, or have a disability, or you know, for some reason are just not connected or don't feel protected by a family. Um so that's what I wanted to do. And moving to Buckner, it was just so eye-opening. I remember my first visit to one of our family hope centers, and I saw these families who were impoverished, but who were just doing all this work to better themselves and their and their kids' futures. Um, I remember one lesson I learned early on. So when the families take classes or go through coaching, or you know, their kids are in um summer camp or after school programs, they get what we call Buckner Bucks. So it's like like play money, right? And then they can use the Buckner Bucks to go shopping in our little market. And you know, each one's different in each family hope center because one's in the valley, one's you know, three in Dallas, they're all different. Um, and I just thought that I was like, well, wait a minute, why do they have to earn this? Like, if they have needs, why can't they just go into the shop and get what they need? And then it dawned upon me, like when I saw the families who were so proud of having earned those books and the dignity that that brings. Like, no, this is my money, I earned it, and now I get to go select a birthday present for my child.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I think you know, that's something that I just didn't even think about when I was thinking about prevention.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00That building dignity in people and um agency and not just giving hands out, but giving a hand up is so important. And it's such a protective factor, really. And I that just blew my mind. Um, so I I love that about Buckner. All of our programs are really about that, you know, about recognizing that, you know, our everybody has God given gifts, and tapping into those gifts is really what's gonna make people sure thrive. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So wow, it's powerful. Uh you may have answered this, but what excites you the most about your work with Buckner?
SPEAKER_00It's never the same day. I mean, I have it's so much fun in that, you know, we are a 150-year-old organization. We serve children and families, we serve aging adults. Um, I'm at the legislature a lot, um, working on a variety of issues with a variety of lawmakers, you know, both sides of the aisle. I had an environmental issue come up recently. I've always wanted to be Aaron Brockovich. I feel like I am right now. We're fighting a uh a rock quarry that's going in um close to Camp Buckner, and it's gonna be an environmental disaster. And so getting to work on issues like that, something totally new to me. And um so yeah, it's it's really fun. And I always feel like I what I love is working with the folks in the programs and some of the clients and some of the volunteers, and just feeling that we are making a difference, you know. Um so that's that's a big part of it too.
SPEAKER_01That's great. This may be a tough question, but if you could convince policymakers in Texas to embrace one idea about protecting children and strengthening families, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00That lone star does not mean being alone. I've been thinking about this. I've been trying to think of a catchphrase like that. Maybe that's not the one, but I feel like there's this mentality in Texas, well, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, which is a physical improbability. Like you can't, it's impossible to do that, right? Um and if you think about it, we all have had support.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00And I don't want to quote Hillary Clinton, but I will. It does take a village. It does. So um parents, teachers, caregivers, daycares, schools, doctors, neighbors, um, it's really it's not gonna work if we just say, well, that's her individual responsibility. And, you know, yes, everybody is responsible for their children, everybody's responsible for themselves, but we all need community and we all need relationship. Yeah. And if you are isolated and don't have that, it's really hard to take care of yourself and your child. Yeah um, especially now, it's hard for families out there. It's you know, daycare is, I mean, it was expensive when we had kids, but my goodness, I don't know if I could afford it right now.
SPEAKER_01No, even in Lubbock, one of my colleagues was saying today how much she's paying for daycare, and it's outrageous.
SPEAKER_00It's outrageous. And the price of homes, yeah, oh my god, like just in Austin, where she's living. Yeah. So I feel like we, if I could say one thing, if I could convince the legislature of one thing, it's like, no, everybody needs a little help. Yeah. And that's okay. It doesn't make us weaker, it makes us stronger.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Okay. Excellent. Well, my last topic is on character and resilience. So I mentioned in 2009, my family and I moved uh over to Kenya to work with the International Justice Mission on child sexual assault casework. Prior to doing that, I asked you for your husband's phone number because I know he'd been prosecuting these types of cases for a long time, because I wanted to know how do you do this without either becoming so jaded or becoming so numb to it? Um, and he had some good advice for me that I that I tried to incorporate. But for you, what personal disciplines help you avoid burnout or secondary trauma in doing emotionally demanding work?
SPEAKER_00Um uh running is a big one. Uh, I've been running for 35 years. Um and I would say also just you know, my faith in that um in the end, all will be good, or it's not the end. I believe that. And I I think that getting out of yourself and your your problems that are happening right now and thinking of bigger picture and thinking of history and um you know, just the larger world and I know it's gonna sound woo-woo, but consciousness, right? Like this is just one aspect of reality, and we know there's a whole different you know, out there that God made. And so um I think that helps too. Sure. Um yeah, and my family. My family is awesome. That's right. We see each other regularly, which is really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's good. Well, I mean, I can attest that doing the work that you have done and and my experience doing this type of work in East Africa really can not challenge your faith, but seeing real desperate injustice and suffering does make force you to wrestle with some serious faith issues. And for some people, yeah, that is a that's a fraught road. Um, but others it can be, it can deepen faith.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I I would say for me, it's been up and down, you know, like there are times like just this morning, I was thinking about this, you know, earthquake in Colombia. Why why all that suffering, right? And um it's tough, but then you you kind of just you go and just be with the Lord, you know, and you just and I mean, I'm not just saying you pray about everything and everything's better, but I think um if you don't have faith, yeah, it it's almost unbearable. This world is almost unbearable, all the pain in it.
SPEAKER_01It is, and and some of the um things that you know we would talk about as a team with IGM was that God could snap his fingers right now and make everything perfect. But that's not his way. We are his plan A. Wherever we are, he we are his plan A to relieve suffering, to fight against injustice, to bring hope to people. And so for me, that was something, even the hardest times and the most challenging circumstances, uh, you know, a child abuser walked free. Where's God in this? Uh, we came back to that. That I don't I don't understand. Yeah, God's in this, and He still has us here to do something about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a great perspective. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, last question for on this thing, how has this work changed your how you parent, mentor, or invest in young people?
SPEAKER_00I don't know if it's changed me because I feel like I've always been this way. You know, my parents were very achievement oriented, and so I was, you know, they were like, what's this A? Why isn't this an A plus? You know, very achievement oriented. And I think it's because they grew up, you know, they grew up, they were the first to go to college and their families, they wanted to see, you know, their kids achieve. So I'm an attorney, my brother's a doctor. Um, and so I knew when I had kids that not that there's anything wrong with that, but I wanted them to be who they authentically were. Yeah. And I feel like I'm so proud that that is happening. You know, my daughter is um a counselor for um juvenile detainees in Travis County and just loves that work. You know, this 28-year-old is working with 15 and 16-year-old boys who are and she just loves it, um, who are really coming from hard places and gonna go into hard things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00My son, different route, he's an accountant, but um he's also choosing his own way. He's just recently told us he's gonna try to live in Chicago for a few years just to try an adventure. He's always been in Austin. So um I'm very proud of that. I think um just encouraging the kids to be who they are meant to be, yeah. And knowing that no matter what, we love them is really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Great. Any final words on leader to our leaders listening?
SPEAKER_00No, I'm just so happy to be here with you and um congrats on the podcast. This I can't wait to check it out and listen to some different leaders.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. It's been a lot of fun. But Andrea, thank you so much for joining me. Of course. It's been great to hear your leadership journey and get your get practical takeaways that we can all incorporate leading our teams. To those listening, thank you for joining me. I'm leader Fastlane. If today's conversation sparked a moment of reflection or a lane change in how you think about leadership, take a minute to share this episode with someone you lead or learn from. Listen next time when I'll be joined by retired United States Ambassador Art Brown. You can find more episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep leading with purpose, integrity, and clarity, especially when it's hard.
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